‘Being invited to perform at Underground for the Masses is an honor for us!’ said Black Mass Pervertor‘s mastermind, as we interviewed him, eager to delve into their sonic rebellion and the dark symbols.
DinIntunerec: Hello, first of all thank you for getting on board with this interview. What has been going on in your dark pits recently?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy (bass & vocals): Well, hello to yourself, and thanks for getting in touch with us! Last November we released our latest work Hyperborean Baptism, and then we have struggled with some line-up changes, but luckily now it’s all good as Frater Lascivus joined the band. It will be his third gig in our ranks at Underground for the Masses. Can’t wait for it!
DinIntunerec: How did Black Mass Pervertor come together as a band? What inspired the formation? Also, what is the story behind the name of the band?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: I started this band in a form or another already in 1998, when I was a 13-year old kid. Back in those days, I was still living in my old hometown, where I didn’t know any people into this kind of music, so I had to start everything from the basics. I was strongly fascinated by the bands like Impaled Nazarene, Beherit, early Kreator, Bathory and such, at the time.
My hometown is also known for its old hardcore punk bands, like Terveet Kädet, Traitor, Tuomiopäivän Lapset, Genocide and such, so I would lie if I would say these bands didn’t have any impact on me, because of course they did! Apart from these aforementioned bands I have to add also Amebix, Repulsion and Doom! As I was already playing in different line-ups back then, I wasn’t very “career-oriented” or ambitious with Black Mass Pervertor yet. No big plans, nor clear vision whatsoever. I was just writing songs whenever I had time. I actually had more this kind of projects existing at the time. And by this I mean those numerous so-called bands I was writing stuff for, but which didn’t become anything serious.
Our first demo was recorded in 2004.
In those sessions I was still behind the drum kit, the other guys I borrowed from the other bands I was involved at the time. We had already recorded few rehearsal tapes with the same method earlier. After the first demo, Black Mass Pervertor slowly started to become like some sort of a real band. I started to take care of the vocals in 2007, when we recorded our first ep. About the name, I can’t recall any specific crystal-clear revelation about this, but I remember that the name was there to direct my songwriting process towards certain path and aesthetics, and I guess it worked just fine.
DinIntunerec: What were the key influences (musical, philosophical, or personal) that shaped the sound and direction of the band?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: Imagine late 80s-early 90s Scandinavian black metal band playing British crust punk with harsh production! All this mixed with purely satanic and blasphemous imagery, that was the recipe. I was about 12-years old kid when I got interested in LaVeyan Satanism. It hit hard at the time, although its magic didn’t last for too long as I grew older. That’s something which I’m not too sad about these days, though. Then imagine us today; the core elements are still present, but add more 80s doom metal and the same era’s sloppy thrash metal elements in the mix, and you are there!
DinIntunerec: Your lyrics explore dark, often controversial themes. What message or emotions are you trying to convey with your music?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: We are jeering at double standards of men, and at the same time encouraging our listeners to be as honest, open, authentic and sensitive towards themselves as possible. Life is too short to be lived according to others’ expectations. Do your own thing!
Especially in those songs where we are not having an erotic session in ancient roman spa, or lounging next to an opium pipe while watching the disobedient slaves being fed to the lions, we have also those more serious, or let say, more spiritual songs. Those songs are more personal to me, and they are meant to work as prayer. These songs are aimed to reconnect my consciousness into my true self, and to remember who I am in this temporal world of fleeting sensations.
DinIntunerec: How does the use of symbolism and occult references fit into your songwriting and imagery?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: They do and they don’t! As I have got some background in studying the occult and the dark arts, for sure the influences and the symbolism and such can be found there if you read our lyrics. But especially these days I try to avoid using expressions which are known to belong to certain traditions or specific left hand path currents, as I don’t want to give anyone an impression that we as a band would follow any certain tradition.
Moreover, our emphasis varies quite a lot on different albums anyway. These days we are mostly writing albums based on certain themes. I need frames in order to create anything. That’s just the way I am. Like for example if Sodomiittien Seura, Lux Sodomiticum and Lex Sodomiticum were based on religious butt-raping and glorification of sheer power, it gives you a wide range of methods to describe those acts. Only the limitations of imagination sets boundaries!
Then again Dionysian Rite is loosely based on Dionysian mysteries of the ancient Greece. But, what’s more important here is to bring those mysteries into this day, and to describe for example the inner metamorphosis and liberation followed by unrestrained behavior and wild drunken abandon!
DinIntunerec: Can you elaborate on the recurring motifs or concepts in your music? How do you ensure that these themes remain fresh and evolving? Are there any specific historical, religious, or philosophical influences that have shaped your lyricism?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: Composing music has been pretty straight-forward and effortless for me for a long time, so I don’t take too much pressure about it. Then once again writing lyrics that fits into our aesthetics requires more attention. As English is not my native language, writing good lyrics always challenges me in some way, as I always try to create a certain flow in my storytelling.
What still fascinates me, is man’s never ending urge to make himself look like a fool. Trying to be something he clearly is not, in order to make him seem more decent and sane.
It’s always rewarding to mock this sad and tragic creature. Man’s inner contradictions, dark impulses and emotions, hidden urges, irrationality and ecstatic frenzy are always good topics to write about, since they can manifest themselves in so many ways.
We often have a strong sexual approach in our songs, because in sex many people feel themselves vulnerable, and for many this topic is very personal and sensitive. I guess that’s why we are so much keen to write about it, ha ha! But in many occasions even in these sexually oriented themes, what lies there in the background is the might is right-philosophy, sub/dom dynamics, complex relationship with religion, and the never ending struggle between moral daydreaming and bestial instincts.
We have a strong connection with our former guitarist – the man who creates all the artwork for this band – and we have this habit to brainstorm over these themes from time to time. Sometimes his illustrations inspire me to write songs over his drawings, and vice versa. It’s always about the collaboration the two of us have.
DinIntunerec: Let’s take a journey back in time, to your first full-length, Phanerosis, out in 2016. Tell us how this album came about. Also, why did you choose this album title and to what apparition or manifestation are you referring to?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: As a band we had a seven year break before that album came out. I guess it was in 2015 when we decided with our ex-guitarist, that we should gather our forces back again. Around that time we asked His Filthiness’ Triumphant Wrist to join the band as a drummer, and soon after we were on our rehearsal space again.
Today, our debut album feels more like some sort of best of collection, because the vast majority of the songs were written and even released in some form in our earlier works, before the band went on hiatus. Phanerosis as an album title means a new beginning, or a second coming for the band. At the same time, all those illustrations which one can clearly see on the cover-art, are basically manifestations of our fleshy world, in its most coarse and wretched nature. The same womb from which we all are given birth, also gives birth to the potential where the shadows and demonic creatures starts to emerge.
Phanerosis cover-art was the first, which was done by our former guitarist Seeker of Unlawful Sensations and Dark Orgastic Pleasures. There, one can find the first illustrations of our later far more better-known pig figure, although that character is not so much in your face yet, but still present in the details. But, to put things short, Phanerosis represents the world of instincts. The world of shadows and underlying tendencies, the greed, the filth and insatiable lust. As I told you earlier, what fascinates me is what’s being left, when you strip us naked from all social conventions, self-deceit and morality. It can get rough, beautiful and hilarious at the same time!
DinIntunerec: Sodomiittien seura followed in 2021. It is dark, brutal, totally irreverent and very dynamic. Tell us a few words about how this album came to be and the concepts behind it.
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: Sodomiittien Seura was planned to be the successor for Life Beyond the Walls of Flesh LP, which came out in 2017. Unfortunately, our collaboration with our previous label ended soon after its release, so we had to find a new label to put our next album out. We recorded Sodomiittien Seura, while we were still waiting for Life Beyond the Walls of Flesh to be released. Transcending Obscurity got interested, but after arguing long enough about our style and aesthetics, they pulled the album back, just upon the time when the album was about to be sent to the record factory!
So, it took few more years, until we finally decided to release that album by ourselves, in small limited edition. Since then, we haven’t looked back! Although we’re lacking decent distribution, we are happy that we have all the strings in our own hands these days.
Black Metal shouldn’t be for everyone. If you are only concerned about your record sales, social media coverage or market strategies, you should be doing something else.
If we work hard and play enough gigs, our albums sell ok, if we are lazy, then it’s our own fault. And sometimes it’s okay to be lazy. I wouldn’t consider Sodomiittien Seura as a concept album per se, but it’s true that on this work we are mostly dealing with themes like religious oppression and exploitation of the weaker substance, but then once again, we are raising a strong individual on the pillar who can’t cope with strict expectations of the society. Once again the idea about the concept started to emerge, when I was spluttering with our former guitarist about few lyrics we had for these songs. Then came the album title, then the cover-art, and soon after we had all the material ready.
DinIntunerec: Your third full-album, Dionysian Rite came out in 2023. Both musically and thematically it proudly showcases Black Mass Pervertor’s signature style. Would it be correct to assume that you have established your musical direction and stick to it?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: Pretty much so. We know who we are and where we come from. We are always willing to push our artistic expression further, but we are well aware what this band is about and stands for. It’s pretty much the sound production that varies from time to time, but the core elements are there.
DinIntunerec: How does the songwriting process work within the band? Is it collaborative, or does one member usually take the lead in composing music?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: Well, 95% it’s me, myself and I, who presents the ideas, and then we arrange the songs together in our rehearsal space. Or, if my ideas are solid enough – then we just follow my infallible vision! But no matter who writes the song, it always has to fit in the whole.
DinIntunerec: The black metal genre is known for its raw sound and aggressive style. How do you balance chaos and structure in your music?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: I’m glad you asked this. It’s usually the music which follows our lyrics in this band. After the lyrics are written, then we come-up with the rhythm and the song structure, then finally we bring in the melodies. Like, for example, if we are describing something in our lyrics, which necessarily isn’t super antagonistic or morbid per se, we try to follow the same atmosphere, musically.
There are different atmospheres heavily present in our music, and that’s something which keeps things interesting for us. I listen to lot of different kind of music these days, so I’d say I have enough hammers in my toolbox, so to say. Some of our songs are intentionally straight-forward and boneheaded, but in many occasions one can find many interesting details in our music and a lot of dynamics. Personally, I’m usually bored of bands who just try to be as brutal or fast as possible. There are different shades in darkness.
DinIntunerec: Let’s talk about the imagery you recurrently displayed on the cover artworks… the humanized pig. In symbology, the pig represents the world of instincts and flesh; greed, lust and the instant gratification of basic needs. Why did you choose the pig as a recurrent motif?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: You basically explained the symbol clearly enough! We use this pig character to portray the very basic instincts of man. No matter what we may think we are, or what we try to become, or how fucking self-satisfied we may be, we are still just animals. Learn how to walk before you try to run, you spineless maggot! Haha!
DinIntunerec: Less than a month from now you’ll perform in Romania, at Underground for the Masses. What do you know about Romania in general and in terms of underground metal? Naturally, we are glad and honored that you decided to play in Bucharest. Can you tell us more about that?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: Well, for sure I know something about your history and about the wars you have fought in the past. But I guess my knowledge is limited to cover only some events and eras starting from the medieval times back to the modern day. I grew up with maps, so I know Romanian geography and topography decently well too, as well as the basics and main principles of your food culture. Sarmales topped with priest’s vomit and virgin’s menstrual blood are my favorite!
Being invited to perform at Underground for the Masses is an honor for us! As we’re running all the band activities by ourselves and things take time and effort, these kind of visits means a lot to us! Unfortunately, I’m not well informed about Romanian metal. I have had the impressions that especially in the black metal circles the wild 80s old school sound is not very popular, but I could be also wrong about this. Hëllstrike makes an exception on this though!
DinIntunerec: Black Mass Pervertor is known for intense live shows. How important is stage presence to you, and what do you hope to convey to the audience during your performances?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: As a small underground band, I find it very important to play gigs every once in a while, because that’s the best way to get in touch with our fans and feel the connection. Beside, that’s where the people mostly buy our merch! And I could say that in live environment the energy of our music really awakens, because of the direct interaction with our audience. This kind of music is made to be performed live! For sure, you can listen to this stuff at home in complete darkness and get the vibe, but I’d say that you understand the essence of our doings better when you get shitfaced and see us on stage.
DinIntunerec: What’s the most memorable or impactful live show you’ve played so far, and why?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: Mlada Boleslav in Czechia 2 years ago, and on the same tour we were playing in Olsztyn, Poland. In Mlada Boleslav the club itself was something very unique, run by older metalheads. The club was located in the basement of an old chapel, and it had this funky smell inside. Anyway, there were big rusty crosses leaning against the walls and all kind of macabre wall paintings everywhere. I guess there was no visible advertising campaign in internet for this gig, but still we played for a full house, and the crowd was intense. You know, this kind of place where the cash is the only method of payment, and where everyone smokes inside. That’s nostalgic.
Then once again, the atmosphere and the audience in Olsztyn, Poland were amazing! The venue was small and there was no stage nor anything, but what an amazing gig it was! You don’t see that kind of crowd every night! The atmosphere was so relaxed and informal. We had so much fun there!
DinIntunerec: How do you view the evolution of black metal over the years? What are your thoughts on the genre’s current direction?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: If we think where the forefathers of black metal started from, then we have come the long way for sure, but then once again, I guess the very essence of black metal is still there, and the flame’s burning bright.
Things have to evolve and progress. It’s good that there are enough varying styles and undercurrents co-existing within this versatile genre, it keeps the subculture healthy. I guess it’s still the underlying dark aura, which is common to all black metal, that attracts certain kind of individuals to dig deeper. Personally I’m not omnivorous for black metal, because my background is in the 80’s metal and punk. You will never find me listening to suicidal-, symphonic-, folk-, pagan-, nsbm, or let say; Finnish “schlager” black metal for example. But, if the others are doing it, it’s not my problem. Do whatever you want, and let me do what I want!
DinIntunerec: Black metal is often seen as a genre with a strong anti-establishment message. How does this align with your own personal philosophy and your approach to music?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: I guess this defines black metal pretty well, and that’s how I personally see black metal should be like. Whenever I write music for this band, I’m not like “now I’m going to write some badass black metal”, rather I just write music because I try to get connected with something which already exists in me. I don’t have any pressure to please anyone with my doings, rather I’m driven by my own inspiration and intuition. Any other way would be false, and not worth my time and effort. I’m not seeking any acceptance or credibility from the black metal circles, but for sure I appreciate if some people like or respect the things we’re doing.
When I was a teenager and got into hardcore punk, I didn’t really buy the style or subculture as a whole, but I always admired the anti-commercial DIY-culture. That you can do whatever you please, just for the sake of it, because it feels right and you have the passion, and that you don’t need to ask for permission to do something, or for existing infrastructure. This attitude still applies. This is how you create something fresh.
DinIntunerec: Do you believe that black metal can still push boundaries today, or is it limited by its own history and traditions?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: Absolutely! As subjective experience at least, for sure. There are always new people who find this subculture, and the deeper they dig, more weird and fascinating the journey can get. I guess the most important factor here is, what kind of change black metal can cause in individuals, and how it can change the way of thinking. And it’s always the new generation who are pushing the boundaries further, and redefining themselves. As long as the new bands who call themselves black metal, know where they come from and what black metal is all about, this genre has a lot of potential. For sure, like in every genre, also the vast majority of today’s black metal are not worth of my time.
I’m talking about bands who are just copying their idols, and haven’t got anything to say or any fresh ideas to offer. But still, at times, some fearless minds can create something new which stands the test of time, or just play the music they love with so great passion that it doesn’t go unnoticed. Then, once again, if we are talking about the impact black metal can leave into the outside world, or whether it can shake the pillars in the mainstream culture, I’d say it’s completely irrelevant.
DinIntunerec: What’s next for Black Mass Pervertor? Can fans expect new music, tours, or projects in the near future?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: We have a new album in progress. We are going to record it during this spring. Or should I be more precise; we are talking about EP-release, which has 8 songs and 20 minutes of material. The name for the upcoming release is Arctic Primitivism, which should give the readers some kind of hint what kind of horror we are talking about here. We aren’t going to do any extensive tours this year, although we have one exclusive club gig in Stockholm early in May, plus a few shows taking place in Czechia in July, and later something coming in Poland for October.
DinIntunerec: What is the most important life lesson that you have learnt so far as artists?
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: Well, there are actually a few! Follow your own star and intuition! Never compromise! If you want to do something, ask for no permission, and don’t expect any help! Trust no one! Remember to take your vitamins, do some exercising and try to sleep enough!
DinIntunerec: Thank you for your time, the final words are yours!
Antinomian Force of Black Sodomy: See you soon guys!
