Interview- Ne Obliviscaris

Australian extreme progressive metal band Ne Obliviscaris played at Quantic not long ago, delivering an outstanding performance. Unfortunately, Xen was missing so we shall catch him on a different occasion… to discuss about the artwork and other concepts… However, we couldn’t miss the great opportunity to interview the other masterminds behind Ne Obliviscaris!

DinIntunerec: Hello, thank you for taking your time to have this conversation. How do you feel about being back in Romania? Are you ready to have a blast tonight?

Benjamin Baret: Hello, definitely. I’m ready to have a blast tonight, of course. Well, it’s always good to be in Romania. Personally, I love it. It’s one of my favorite places to go to. I like the culture very much. Also, we seem to do okay here, so on pretty much every European tour we make it to Romania, which is not the case of every band, but I like it that way. For the first time, we’re actually playing more than one show, because we’re also going to Cluj, which we haven’t played since 2016, I think, so eight years ago. But, we were also here three months ago, for a Metalhead Meeting, and we’re back already, and I’m very happy about it.

DinIntunerec: Let’s have a short journey into the past. How did Ne Obliviscaris come about? What were the plans back then? And how much did the things deviate from the original plans?

Benjamin Baret: They did. Oh, they did, of course. The band is 21 years old, actually, so we’re not exactly new. I personally have been in the band since 2008, so 16 years out of 21. The band just started with the main singer, who isn’t here tonight with us, Xen. Unfortunately, he won’t play with us tonight. But he’s coming back. He needs to sort out some stuff first.

So, he started Ne Obliviscaris and, very quickly, Tim joined, I think, within three months or something, and then Matt, the other guitar player, joined within a year. Those guys have been there since the inception of Ne Obliviscaris, I would say. So, quickly, the goal was to do something, to get out of Australia and play worldwide.

Of course, we all had dreams, but we were 20 years old and didn’t really know better, so then reality came in the way, and it took way longer than we thought, so you could say that deviated from the plan.

But, in the end, we did sort of make it as a band, well enough to be one of those bands that’s on the road, not losing too much money, and being able to play about 100 shows a year or something, on multiple continents. So, that’s very good, being able to bring your music and have a little fan base everywhere you go, very pleasant.

DinIntunerec: What is the story behind the name Ne Obliviscaris and in what way does it represent you as artists?

Benjamin Baret: So, it’s quite simple, actually. The lead singer, his family name is Campbell. Campbell is an old Scottish clan, and it is their motto. On the patches that they would have it said Ne Obliviscaris, which is in Latin, and it means not forgetting, but that’s an old, old Scottish thing… So, we just took it from there, because that’s his family name and Ne Obliviscaris is their motto.

DinIntunerec: Your latest album, Exul, was completely written and ready to start recording in early 2020. That’s why the drummer went to the US to record drums with producer Mark Levis, but that went differently than expected. What happened?

Benjamin Baret: Well, COVID happened, I think you know, in early 2020, so Dan was actually on the way back to Australia and was on the last flight from the USA before they closed the border. I’m French, I live in France and I was flying to Australia to record it, so I went to Paris to catch it, because I live in the southwest. Anyway, I made it to Paris, and it was a Sunday night, and I went to bed. I was supposed to catch the flight from Paris on Monday morning, and I woke up and found emails and messages saying that the borders are closed, the flight is cancelled and all that.

So, yeah, it kind of turned to shit, so I went back home, and we had to organize different solutions to record everything apart, and we did, and it actually turned out okay. The thing is, since we didn’t know how long the whole COVID thing was going to last, we took our time. We were not in a rush ready to record anymore, because we didn’t know when we were going to be able to put it out anyway. So the good thing was that, for once, I had all the time I wanted to record everything. Because I’ve got professional equipment at home, so I can record by myself there, which I did.

It took a couple of years, I think, eight different studios among all the members of Ne Obliviscaris to record the freaking album, but we did, and Mark Lewis worked his magic, and I’m very happy about it.

DinIntunerec: Indeed, this was only the beginning of the delays, since it seems that the producer, the guitarist, and, well, yourself, I mean, and the bassist even had bigger problems. What happened?

Benjamin Baret: There were plenty of problems: not being able to fly, because Dan, Xen, Tim, and Matt are all in Australia. So they could sort of sometimes get together for work and go to the studio to record. But we were stuck in Europe, and we couldn’t do that, so we had to work it out by ourselves. It was the first time for me that I had to record everything by myself in the studio. Usually, I’m with the producer or sound engineer, someone who’s telling me this is not good, someone who at least presses the button, three, two, one, go.

This time I had to do it all by myself, and it’s actually quite hard to be a good judge of yourself after you’ve been recording for five hours. It’s really hard to hear what’s good and what’s not anymore. That’s why it’s better to have somebody else with you who can really push you and all that. I didn’t have that, but I think it worked out pretty well in the end.

DinIntunerec: We all know what followed, the pandemic and lockdown, and finally you finished the album in seven additional studios. How come when the world was still semi-closed? How come you got to do it? And it was finished in 2022, as far as I remember.

Benjamin Baret: About that… well, most of it was actually finished in 2021, but Tim went through a lot of personal issues, so it took him ages to… He lost a family member and plenty of annoying stuff. He moved away also at the same time, he moved houses, so it took him a year to record everything, but they made it work. Like I said, I think there was some exemption saying that if you are working, you could go to some places, and they managed to do that, and no one got sick, and that’s how we finished it.

Then, it was mixing forever, and then when the pandemic ended, well, at least the restrictions ended, it was quite hard to release it… Because all the bands were in the same situation. Most of them used that time to record an album, and then we didn’t know how to choose when to release it… There was a bit of a traffic jam, every band wanted to release their album and tour at the same time, get back on the road… So, we decided to wait a little, to just not add to the noise, and that’s why it took us so long. We were away for like two and a half years, which is a long time.

DinIntunerec: What does Exul even mean? Can you go deeper into the ideas and meaning behind that word? Does it have anything to do with the concept of exile? How does it convey the lyrical concept of the album?

Benjamin Baret: Yeah, it’s about the exile, in general. Of course, it relates to us being in exile from each other, and what it means when you are isolated… You have to look within yourself to find happiness, because you’re exiled from every place. That was, up to some extend, the concept behind all of it, but of course that applies in different ways to different people. So, as usual, it’s open to interpretation. You can live it your own way, but yeah, it’s about being away from what you know and finding new paths where you are.

DinIntunerec: I must confess, before listening to the album actually, when I just saw the title, I thought it’s a game of words and it comes from exaltation, but when I listened to the album, I realized that it had a totally different vibe, so dropped my first interpretation.

Benjamin Baret: No, it’s not right, it’s got nothing to do with exaltation or any kind of happiness, it is all about being exiled, separated, isolated, as I’ve just said.

DinIntunerec: Your latest three albums have a two-part track. Is it something that you’re doing on purpose as a landmark? Also, what is the story of the creation of Misericorde?

Benjamin Baret: So, the way it works is that usually when we write the music, I write a huge part of it at home. I find it kind of hard to… separate the tracks. Whenever I finish a song, I always use the end of that song to start a new one. I don’t start from nowhere, except for the very first track, of course. Well, I hope that it always flows from one song to another, and sometimes it’s just so obvious that… we have to make like two parts of the one song.

But, to be honest, I’m not too fussed about it. It’s not like something that I insist upon. But… Xen, yeah, he loves doing that. What is the story of the creation of Misericorde? The first part is me and Tino, mostly. And the second part, it’s Tim and Matt. So, it’s two different creation chapters… Martino and I… we write together a lot, and like really fast, we work really fast. Tim and Matt, who are both in Australia, they write in a different style. First part is us, second part is them. We write on each other’s parts, of course. But it’s more like the two sides of Ne Obliviscaris.

DinIntunerec: Actually, how does the creative process go in your case? Who does what, exactly?

Benjamin Baret: Me and… Like I said, me and Martino, we write a lot of riffs and songs that are pretty short, pretty efficient. Then we submit it to the rest of the band, and usually we just take apart the parts of the song, and we rewrite it together. So, we initially have like five-minute songs. Then, by the time it’s finished, it’s eight, nine, ten minutes. Because then we want breaks, we want to add space for the vocals, or for the violin.

So, most of the time, Martino and I write the music. We do the demos. Because we all use the same recording programs, it’s easy to break it apart, do their own thing and send it back. That’s how it is. That’s how it’s been for the last two albums, actually. The first two albums we used to all write together in the jam room. But now that we don’t live in the same place anymore, we have to do it this way.

Anyway, it’s working out quite well, you know? We have like lots of new music for the new album already written. No song, but like, maybe 15 minutes worth of music. None of it is put together just yet. So, that’s how we do it usually. Tino and I kickstart, then Matt and Tim are gonna help. Dan is going to write his drums. Lyrics in the end, once we know who’s doing what. Because it’s really hard to rewrite the lyrics.

DinIntunerec: So, as far as I understand, it all starts with the riffs.

Benjamin Baret: Usually melodies, riffs. Tim may start something with a bit of piano or a violin. But Tino and I, we just write a lot of short songs, I would say, that are just up for grabs. Everybody can just take it apart.

DinIntunerec: I just wanted to understand how the music gets created in your head. Because speaking with a lot of band members, I hear a lot of stories. Some start with a concept and start to build the music they believe fits with the concept. Others told me that they had some riff playing on and on and on for years in their minds until they found its place in a piece of music they later realized it belonged. Others say it all starts with a feeling. Or with a vision, or with an image and they start to build on and create on that image.

Benjamin Baret: Well, I can only really speak for me, but sometimes it is about a feeling. Sometimes it’s whatever comes to mind as well. It’s pretty hard to kick start a song, but once I’ve got the first 30 seconds, usually I find it quite easy to continue. But it’s a writer’s block sometimes. It’s hard to start from nothing. But, I also really enjoy this part of the process.

DinIntunerec: The lyrical concept of this two-part song seems to be about the final part of life. Tim, can you explain it?

Tim Charles: Well, first of all, the way that the music and the lyrics are written for Ne Obliviscaris is that the music always comes first. Then the lyrics, which are written by Xen, our vocalist in conjunction with me. But the melodies and stuff like that as the clean singing, kind of comes after. It’s kind of trying to sense what the music inspires in us. And I guess that song in particular was inspired by the universal theme that a lot of people have. That of dealing with the reality of what it is for life to be ending, especially in regards to people with terminal illness.

So, at that time, my mom actually had terminal cancer, and Xen had had his own experiences with people that he loves that had passed away, and we were exploring that feeling of confronting reality of what is like to really look death in the eye. To sit with that and kind of expose that theme through the song.

DinIntunerec: I have a feeling that the producer Mark Lewis had a major influence on this album. Tell us more about your collaboration with Mark, please.

Benjamin Baret: I’m so happy we’re working with him. He really knows how to make Ne Obliviscaris sound much better. Because the first two albums, we made with Jens Bogren, who’s very famous, and I like the sound. But people were telling us that we are way heavier live than on the recordings. So when I checked out the recordings again, I realized they were right, it does sound a bit thin. Personally, I like it, because it’s very ethereal. It’s very light and easy to listen to. But, it’s not very heavy, that’s true.

So we decided to go with Mark Lewis, who is a genius. He knew exactly what kind of sound he wanted to achieve… He did the tones for all the guitars as well. He chose the amps. He said, let’s use this, let’s use that. And I agreed with absolutely everything that he’s done. So, yeah, you’re right. The producer Mark Lewis played a big part. I love all the tips and tricks that he gave me. He’s like, oh, you should play it more like this. You should record like that. So, it helped me so much, and I love working with him. And I really hope we’re going to work with him on the next one as well.

I worked with him for my other band as well. I’ve got another band, and we went with him as well. Yeah, it’s beautiful. He’s just so good at it. He’s a genius. I love him. But, I’ve actually never met him, you know. I’ve never seen him in person.

DinIntunerec: You’ve released very interesting videos for two of the singles, for Equus and Graal. Tim, please tell us about the lyrics and the videos.

Tim Charles: So the lyrics, in a general sense, for Equus, which was the first single of this album, in the video there is a dancer, and the dancer represents Mother Earth. Essentially, the song is about the plight of Mother Earth due to humans. So from that perspective, it is kind of a song about the environment and the way that we don’t look after our planet very well and the harm that our actions cause to the wider world.

You see in the video, the dancer, Mother Earth, dying… and the horrors and the flames. So there’s all sorts of different imagery and it kind of expands on those topics.

But I think it’s one of those interesting things… the way the lyrics are written… often, there’s a general theme, but the exact details are written in a fairly cryptic or not obvious way, which means that they are a little bit open to interpretation.

DinIntunerec: Does the video have anything to do with local aboriginal traditions? Because there is a silhouette of a lady all dressed in red, having something in her hands like a ritual scepter.

Tim Charles: I think the one you’re referring to is from the Graal video. About Graal… there’s quite a lot of distinct imagery throughout it. The thing I was going to make reference in regards to the Australian aspect was that particular Australian Aboriginal element. Part of the original inspiration, the idea for Equus actually came just after there had been these massive bushfires in Australia. And there had been millions of Australian wildlife, animals, stuff like that had died in the process of those. This was in 2019, I think. Just before we had written that song. So from this perspective, it had that local element as well.

Some of the Graal themes, the lyrics for that and the video concept was all designed by Xen, our other vocalist. Some of the themes are a little bit more personal to him, I guess. But, one of the things in the video that is worth to me actually is that the little girl playing the violin is my daughter. So when we played that song in Melbourne, Australia last September, she actually played that song with us live. That’s kind of a different element to share from that video… something that’s special about it for me, personally.

DinIntunerec: As you said, Xen is responsible for a lot of things, including the artwork. Can you tell me a bit more about it and the symbolism behind the artwork of the album?

Tim Charles: Well, I think that a lot of the symbolism of the artwork is deliberately open to interpretation so people can see it and read the lyrics and then try to work out their own connections. So, Xen doesn’t talk too much about specifics of this representing that element from the songs or things like that. But I think what’s always really interesting with the way Xen does the artwork for Ne Obliviscaris is that the cover is always one of the very last things that is created after we have the whole album. Because only then can he try to make sense of what has been created as a whole and then what are the different elements that can be represented in that cover in order to bring that across.

DinIntunerec: Your song, And Plague Flowers The Kaleidoscope, is being studied and analyzed by composition students at the Sydney Conservatory of Music. How does this make you feel?

Benjamin Baret: It’s great. I don’t know if it’s still the case, but it was part of it at some point. So, I guess that professor is still there. I remember that day so well. It was so long ago, maybe more than 10 years ago, but we were playing in Sydney… just some concert. At the end, I was doing the merch. And there was this older guy who came and he said, he was a professor. He asked if we had scores for that song? Because he wanted to give it to his students for study. I was a bit shocked and unsure if he was serious? And yeah, he was serious.

So we wrote down the scores and gave it to him, and it’s still being studied, apparently. So yeah, it’s great. I really had no idea that we would make it there. But Australia is very open-minded, when it comes to heavy music. No one’s afraid of that. So everybody knows AC/DC. That would never happen here, where people are very scared of distortion and metal. When you go to university to study music, you will never hear distortion. Absolutely guaranteed. It’s classical, modern jazz, and that’s it. Nothing else exists.

Of course, we do feel a bit of pride in it.

Also, it was a long time ago, and I think we have new songs that they should be studying instead of this one now. They should study Suspyre, for instance.

DinIntunerec: What is your favorite Ne Obliviscaris song to play live and why?

Benjamin Baret: So currently, my favorite song to play live, what would it be? I really love playing Suspyre because it’s such a live song. It works so well live. If I could never ever play again And Plague Flowers The Kaleidoscope in my life, I would be very happy. Because I’ve played it way too many times. Way too many times. But it always works live, so that’s good. I think people still like it. It’s still our most popular song. Maybe it’s our most popular song because we play it all the time as well. I don’t know.

So, I enjoy playing Devour Me Colossus live because it’s easy. It’s one of the easiest songs to play. So it doesn’t feel like I’m working so hard. And it works so well live. It’s always a great moment. People love it. It’s very melodic and heavy at the same time. So I like it.

DinIntunerec: Let’s take a step back and look at your past again. Can you walk us through some of the defining moments that shaped Ne Obliviscaris into what it is today?

Benjamin Baret: Oh, sure. There’s a whole bunch of stuff. The very first demo, The Aurora Veil in 2007,  made some waves underground. That’s how I heard about the band. I was like, oh, it’s nice. And I saw they were looking for a guitar player. So, I went to Australia to play in Ne Obliviscaris. And I’m still in the band. So that was pretty defining.

Then, we had the first album, which had really good reception. And we thought it was going to take us places, but it did not. We did not get any serious offers to play in Europe or anything. So, Ne Obliviscaris toured around Asia. Because when you’re in Australia, it’s easy to go to Japan and places like that. So we went to India, Taiwan, Hong Kong and China before we came to Europe.

We went to all those places that actually not too many bands go to.

When you’re in Australia, like I said, it’s easier. So, that was a big lesson. Because I was sure that, with such an album, we were going to play everywhere, but we did not. At that point, I realized it was going to be way harder than I thought. That was quite defining as growing up. It’s like, oh, no, at least I’m not going to be a rock star just now.

Then Citadel came out. Bingo! This time it worked out. The guys from Cradle of Filth actually liked Ne Obliviscaris and took us under their wing, sort of. They brought us to the USA and to Europe for the first time. So, we got to play to wide audiences. And that’s it. That’s how it really kick-started everything. That was a huge defining moment for Ne Obliviscaris, the second album. And then things were in motion.

We made it to that level. So we could be on the road and make a bit of money this time. So that was, I would say, the two biggest, most defining moments for Ne Obliviscaris. Of course, every album is important. A defining moment in a way. But those ones, the two first ones really taught us so much about how to behave, about how to deal with the music industry and all that. We’ve been working with the same people as far as management goes for some years now. It’s all about  building from there. There’s no secret, really.

You either get lucky or it takes a lot of time and hard work and patience. Some bands, they go really big, really fast. But it’s like winning the lottery.

Some people win the lottery and get really rich, really fast. But they just won the lottery. It’s not like they built anything. Most of the bands who get somewhere, it’s like that. You get on the bus and every tour there’s a hundred more people at your shows. And that’s what you’re hoping for. And after a few years, well, that’s it. There’s 500, 600, 700. And it’s worth it. Especially, you know, for the music we create. Since it’s not trendy metalcore or something. It’s just a weird kind of rock-metal with long songs.

So there is a limit in our potential popularity. We’re not going to play arenas.

We’re not going to headline the biggest festivals. We’re not going to be like Architects or, you know, very big bands like that. But, we’ll do the best we can for as long as we can. Always with the aim of leaving something behind, you know…

DinIntunerec: Sounds great to me, your plan and motivation, I mean. However, I’ll go on digging into the not so pleasant side of things, because people should understand that life as an artist is far from being only rainbows and sunshine. What were the main obstacles that you had to overcome during Ne Obliviscaris’s career?

Benjamin Baret: I guess it’s more or less the same obstacles every band had to overcome. The money thing, you know, like everybody else. Like when you’re 20 years old and you live with mom and dad, it’s okay to not make money. Then, you start having families and all that. You can’t just like go on the road for five or six weeks and leave the wife and kids and be like, ‘okay, I’m going to lose money with my friends now for a month’. That’s not going to work out.

You need to find the right balance between music and the day jobs. Almost all of us have day jobs and you need to find a way to make it work because we don’t make a full time living out of this at all. We just get by, we don’t lose money when we’re on the road. That’s cool. We have a little crew, we pay the sound engineer, we pay the management, the merch person and we pay ourselves a little bit. But as soon as we are not on the road, that’s it. We need to go back to a regular day job.

So finding the balance is definitely the main obstacle.

You may think it gets easier, but it never gets easier. You just get different problems. When you’re 20 years old, you have those kind of problems. Like having to do the merch, for example, because you don’t have money to pay somebody. And that’s really exhausting. After playing for an hour and a half, you have to rush to sell stuff and people want everything, take pictures, sign their stull and also you need to pack up and carry your stuff.

Then you make enough money to get somebody to do that for you. But then you have other problems to deal with. You just get different kind of problems. When you solve one problem, there’s another problem. The bigger you get, the more problems you’ll have. It’ll just be different.

DinIntunerec: What is the driving force, the bond or the common values that drives Ne Obliviscaris forward?

Benjamin Baret: Well, we’re good friends, first of all. We’ve been together for a long time because this is what it means being in a band. You’ve heard that before, I’m sure. It’s like being married and with no sex. With five or six people and you live in a bus for like five weeks together. So, I mean, you’d better be friends because you don’t want to be stuck with someone you hate for five weeks on the bus. Also, we lived through so many things together and there is a bond between us.

We’ve done too much stuff together that people cannot relate to. It’s like only the six of us having all these in common. It’s not secrets, but it’s like things you experience on the road or on stage and all that. When you go home, you have no one to talk to about it because they don’t know what it’s like and the only people who know about it are the guys who shared it with you. So that creates an even bigger bond. That’s all.

I would say the band itself is the bond… and playing live.

We all love playing live. I mean, I write music but the goal is not just to write the music, it is to go out there and play it. At least with Ne Obliviscaris. Some guys are like studio guys. They stay at home and play the music being perfectly happy just with that. But not me. Once it’s done, I need a stage to play it.

DinIntunerec: There must be a lot of memories from the tours and from life on the road. Can you share a special moment, something that made an impact on you on a personal level?

Benjamin Baret: Yeah, sure. Well, I can talk about a very something that happened in Romania, actually. Ne Obliviscaris played in Brasov in 2018, at Rockstadt. I forgot the month, but it was in the middle of winter, and Xen got super sick and he had to be rushed to the hospital. But, we were stuck in the mountains, in the traffic jam and he was vomiting blood out in the snow. We freaked out: ‘What the fuck is going on? Is he going to die on us right now?’ Anyway, he had a ruptured stomach. But we didn’t know he had to be rushed to the hospital. Finally, we got to Brasov, but without a singer as he was at the hospital.

It was pretty bad, but we actually had an amazing show. Even though we played without him, people were very supportive. We had an incredible party after that with everyone. It was fantastic. In 24 hours, we went through every emotion possible. First we didn’t know if Xen was going to come out alive, because it looked really, really bad. We didn’t sleep, we were tired and stressed and without a singer. And actually, it was very good.

DinIntunerec: What was, let’s say, the most interesting fan reaction that you had?

Benjamin Baret: Well, we had a few people who got engaged during our songs. People were proposing. Including that night. The night when the singer was in hospital in Brasov.

You never know what your music means to someone. You don’t know if it means something deep, or if it means the same thing that it means to us. I don’t know if we have a special place in the heart of someone, for example. And there are a lot of people who dealt with grieves, and deaths and so on… and they listen to our music. It means a lot to us and we really appreciate it.

DinIntunerec: What is the most important life lesson that you have learnt so far as an artist, as a musician?

Benjamin Baret: Be humble. Be humble, there are no rock stars, there are just people. Everyone calls himself an “artist” these days, but… the ID that people project on you because they only know your music is something different. Yet, it is better to be humble, because you know, after the concerts, the interviews and whatever, we are just people, we are going to the office, come back, go home to our families… And that’s ok, I am perfectly happy with that. So, be humble. No one is special. Everyone’s cool. That’s it.

DinIntunerec: Thank you for your time. Any final words for the fans and for our readers?

Benjamin Baret: We thank you for the interview and for having us here tonight. Keep up the awesome thing that you do. For the audience, thank you for coming to our show! Keep going to concerts, support your favorite bands and remember, music is always there for you in your most happy days and also in your most difficult moments! Also, we love Romania, thank you!