Interview- Samael

With over 35 years of activity and still counting, eleven full-length albums and plenty of memorable live appearances, the Swiss legend, Samael, needs no presentation. The iconic industrial metal...
Samael -live at Quantic Photo credits: Stefan Lupascu
Samael -live at Quantic Photo credits: Stefan Lupascu

With over 35 years of activity and still counting, eleven full-length albums and plenty of memorable live appearances, the Swiss legend, Samael, needs no presentation. The iconic industrial metal band performed at Quantic on December 12th, and the thrill of having a comprehensive discussion with the founder and front man, Vorph, could only be eclipsed by the amazing show that followed!

DinIntunerec: Hello, thank you for getting on board with this interview. Welcome to Romania, you’ve played here a couple of times before. How was your experience on stage here until now?

Vorph: Always been good, always been good. I remember the first time was actually in Bucharest. I’m not certain, I think it was 2008, something like a long time ago already. I remember it was a group of people organizing the concert. There were not as many concerts back in the past, but you know, it was kind of starting the whole thing. I kind of like that, having people together and making things happening. We enjoyed it a lot and met some people that we’ve actually still seen throughout the years. So it’s cool.

DinIntunerec: Let’s have a journey back in time. How did the band come about and how was everything in the early days?

Vorph: I started, well, I don’t know if I need to mention this, but I was playing with a friend like for a year or something. Then, you know, I started to play with Xy. So, that’s where everything started to be more serious, so to speak. We had in mind to do a vinyl, a seven inch vinyl. We rehearsed the whole summer together, recorded during the fall and had this released early 89. Well, we kept on being only two,  Xy on the drums, me on vocals and guitar until after the recording of the first album, then Mas joined the band. So we were three piece for two albums.

Then, we had a keyboard player joining the band because Xy started to do all the music by himself, as he was trained as a piano player as a kid. So, we thought, if we were to play this live, we need to have a keyboard player. We did an album and a mini album with him. Then, he left the band. So, we had to find a solution. Xy didn’t want to have anybody playing the drums instead of him, but we didn’t know anybody who could play the keyboard. As he was composing it, we decided, he’ll be on the keyboard and we’ll program the drum.

That’s where the big shift went… with the drum machine on Passage album.

Then, we recruited a second guitar player around that album because, you know, we had some harmony with the guitar and we could not reproduce this live. So, we needed a second guitar player. He stayed with us for a couple of years, then he left. Then, we had another guitar player joining in. We kept that formula for over ten years, fifteen years, I think. It was kind of a solid lineup. Then, things started to change again.

Our bass player stopped doing music to dedicate himself to being a light engineer. I mean, he was doing this for many bands during the time he was playing with us, but then it was not possible because of the schedule. He had to cancel some shows, dropped out, joined the band as a bass player, even though he’s a guitar player. After that, the guitar player wanted to move. So, Drop switched from the bass to the guitar and we had Ales joining the band. Now, here we are, with this lineup for four years. I mean, Drop is with us for ten years already. But, you know, I hope this is the one. I mean, this is the best we had so far. I’m pretty happy with the current situation. And I think we all are.

DinIntunerec: You started with black metal and later the musical style changed. How did that come to happen?

Vorph: We never really made plans. I mean, we were fans of black metal, the darkest side of metal in general. It still kind of gave me a kick. It’s not the only thing I’m into, but that kind of talked to me in a certain way. So, that was what we wanted to do. Then, we tried to develop, as I mentioned, in ’96, we started to work with a drum machine. So, a lot of industrial influence appeared. It was the time that we discovered that music, were very much excited by that music and we wanted to have some of those elements in ours. And so, that’s how the shift went. I mean, it kind of happened slowly, but you don’t really see it coming.

Also, I think an album is preparing the next one. But, that’s what you see, if you look in reverse. You’re just doing an album and then when it’s time to do the next step, everything you’ve done before kind of goes into the plate and, you know, helps you to go further.

DinIntunerec: How does the creative process go in your case? Who does what? Is it a collaborative process or is it more like a one man effort?

Vorph:  As I mentioned, since the third album, Ceremony of Opposites, I started to do all the music. I just did one song on that album music wise. So, I just focus on the lyrics and the vocal line. And now especially, I mean, for the album which is coming, which we kind of finished now, this is still the same thing, all the music and the lyrics. But, as we had more time, especially during COVID, we were checking the songs together and it was not a direct collaboration, but we all gave our opinion about what we were doing and about the construction of the songs, because Drop is also a producer.

I mean, he played with many bands before and he was the main songwriter. So, he’s got a vision as well about the music. It’s very interesting to have somebody else kind of doing also the production.

DinIntunerec: I’m going to elaborate a little bit more on this question. Some bands start with lyrics, with some concepts and then they put it on music, others with riffs and music and then they add vocals. How does it work for you?

Vorph: We don’t have a fixed formula. It’s not always the same. It depends. I have some example in my mind, a certain song… One time, I wrote some lyrics because I went to an exhibition and there was a special painting that really spoke to me. I wrote something, not even thinking it will be a song. I mean, it was like a two page thing. Then, Xy gave me a song that we had for a long time, but he worked it differently. And I was kind of stuck with this again. I had some idea back in the day, for different lyrics and I’ve tried maybe I could do something with that two page thing and I cut it.

I just used the part that I thought would work with the song. That’s the way I did it. But it’s different most of the times. I usually write down when I’ve got ideas. It’s not always a song. Maybe it’s two sentences or maybe just a title or just an idea. It will not finally come out with the same title, but it will be the direction. Then, when it’s time to do something, I try to go back to what I wrote and see if there is something usable there. Or, sometimes I just start from scratch. I listen to the music a few times. Sometimes I just try to find the vocal line without words. With just blah blah. Sometimes all I have is just a word that makes sense. Well, if it does, I start to write it down and elaborate.. So, it’s never really the same. It depends.

DinIntunerec: Can you explain how all the elements in music help you to build the atmosphere? And also, what does a good atmosphere mean to you?

Vorph: That’s a good question. I mean, as I’m not really doing the music myself, I think Xy will be the person to answer that. But, I will not even talk about atmosphere. I will talk about personality. I think, music has got something which kind of tells you where to go. At least for me, I mean, it puts me in a certain mood. For instance, let’s say this song is aggressive. Therefore, I have to find words that are punchy, something that kind of competes with the music. On other occasions, I need something more atmospheric, or I need to come up with a story. I just need to let the music speak to me and then I can put the words on it. That’s at least the way I work.

DinIntunerec: Who came up with the idea of naming the band after the Angel of Death? How does it reflect in the concept you have been building the music upon?

Vorph: I came up with that idea. Well, I don’t know, how it links to our music or if it truly does. Really, I had different ideas of names, I was reading books at the time. I remember seeing the name somehow instantly. I don’t know why, but it kind of it rang a bell. Then, I checked what it meant and it meant different things. It’s also the incubus, the male part and so on and so forth In the Kabbalah, it’s  the angel of the planet Mars, the angel of war and action, not only war, but also competition. So, during that time, I thought there are a lot of things that enrich the significance of that word. But, right now, I don’t care about it. I mean, it’s the name. Sometimes I find links about what we’re doing, read what they say and think it makes sense. But it’s never intentional. I’m not having this as a limitation. I can go over the border with my lyrics, with my ideas. I don’t feel constrained about with the name.

DinIntunerec: Let’s talk a little bit about Passage. Many of the lyrics in Passage reflect very heavy themes of pain, spirituality, the human experience. How do these things reflect where you were mentally and emotionally during the making of the album?

Vorph: Well, I was in transition. I remember it was not a good time in my life, but, it’s always the same when you pass the difficult time, you feel like it was nothing. But, I remember when I was there, it wasn’t… It didn’t really feel like it was going to be an easy ride. I was kind of lost and trying to find my way really around life in general, trying to make sense in my head about different things that were a bit antinomic.

DinIntunerec: The lyrics of Rain speak about cleansing and renewal. Is it a metaphor for a personal or collective process of purification, both in the world and in your own life at that moment?

Vorph: I like the way you put it. It doesn’t really matter if it’s personal or collective. I mean, collective is always personal somehow. I mean, everybody feels it belongs. This is from that person. And then you feel like the connection. But it has to be something in you that connects you to something, I suppose. That’s how I imagine it, the connection to happen. But yeah, you described it perfectly.

DinIntunerec: In Rain, you mentioned “One drop for every broken dream and one for every conceived plan.” Can you elaborate on what this line means to you personally and within the context of the album?

Vorph: Well, that was me at the time, as I said, thinking that, you always make choices in your life and then, you know, you had to deal with the choices you made. Sometimes you feel, ‘damn, I shouldn’t have done this’ way too late. You’re thinking, you know what you’re going to do, but life teaches you that whatever your plan is, it’s going to be different. I mean, it might be better, actually. I’m not saying it will be worse. It’s often better. I have to admit that, at least from my experience. I’m maybe not always thinking it will be easy. However, sometimes it’s better than I expected. But, it’s usually never really the way you think it’s going to be. It’s like, make a plan and you’ll see.

DinIntunerec: Angel’s Decay has a haunting, intense atmosphere, exploring themes like anguish, despair and the rise of an angel. What inspired the narrative of this track and what does the angel symbolize in this context?

Vorph: Well, it’s a bit the idea of overcoming the idea of suicide. I think this is pretty much what the song is about. Even for the people who flirted with suicide or even like a try at it. It’s about the fact that, maybe you thought it was the end. Maybe you thought it should stop here. But, hey, it didn’t. So, give it another try. Let it rise. Let the new you or whatever… give yourself a second chance.

DinIntunerec: The line, “For I let the angel rise”, appears in Angel’s Decay. What does the angel represent in this song? Redemption? Self-realization? Or entirely something else?

Vorph: I like to have both of those. As I said, it’s a bit like, give yourself a second chance. I never said that about this song, but I think now, yeah, it is really the idea. Like, let it rise. Let yourself get over the past and, start over. Like the Phoenix, rise up! I mean, I could have said Phoenix… I used the angel, but this is the same idea.

DinIntunerec: With Passage being a highly influential album, how do you feel it has been received by fans and critics over the years?

Vorph: I don’t know, but I guess it sticks somehow. It’s nearly 30 years now and we’ve been asked to play the whole album and we did that last year already in some places. We got the same thing with Ceremony of Opposites, the previous album. It’s not the same people usually who like the album, but some may like both of them. It was a period of transition, both of those albums. So, some people follow us further. Some people say, well, I’m done with them.

But now, they may think, oh, maybe I’m going to check this, because I liked the album when it came out. I mean, as I mentioned we come from the metal scene, obviously. We were fans of heavy metal before we discovered all the extreme bands, Venom, Bathory, the darkest bands of this corner of heavy metal. But then, it was the time when we discovered industrial music and all those bands had an influence on us. Thus, we thought, there is a mix to be done here, and someone already did it like Fear Factory, but they did it their own way. So, we wanted to mix orchestral stuff with industrial, have a special mix, and try to define ourselves, to have a definition of being different.

DinIntunerec: What is your personal favorite track from Passage and why does it stand out to you?

Vorph: I don’t know. I kind of like Liquid Soul Dimension because it’s a weird song. It’s different. I don’t see any other songs from us and even from other bands to compare to it. It’s not really a mid-tempo song. We’ve got some other songs out there on Solar Soul that are really good. I love to play them live. But usually the response is a bit cold…  you cannot really jump around. I don’t know if it’s my favorite one, but that’s one I really like. And we usually don’t play it unless we play the album or back in the days when we were touring for that album.

DinIntunerec: So, if you think of all the songs, what is your favorite one to play live?

Vorph: I don’t know. I mean, maybe some that we’re not playing. For me the response of the public is important. It’s difficult to judge, because it’s often a different one. I mean, from one night to another. If it’s really happening, we all know after the show, because we played good. We felt it. Also, we’ve got the response like, wow. And then we think, oh, this is the one, so we try it another night but it doesn’t work. People didn’t have an equally enthusiastic reaction. That’s the beauty of playing live. You don’t know before. There are some songs that we almost play all the time: Rain, Baphomet’s Throne. People love them all the time. But then there are other songs to which the reaction depends. And that’s the magic of it.

DinIntunerec: Each band has defining moments or turning points. What do you think are the key elements that shaped Samael into what it is today?

Vorph: Well, definitely Passage will be one of the albums. I’m pretty confident about that. Then I don’t know. Every album has been like a kind of turning point. I think Eternal really opened doors everywhere for us, music wise. We kind of enlarged our thing… make it really large. We kept on with Reign of Light. And then, we thought, well, we have to focus again, because it’s always possible to do more and more and, then dissolve into different influences. Then, you don’t really know the shape you have. However, we don’t forget where we came from. And we thought, well, let’s have a backbone to this whole thing.

That’s what we wanted to do with Solar Soul. So we kind of come back to something more on the line with what we’ve done before, but more focused. We kept with this idea until Hegemony, which is the latest album we released. Also, what we’re working on will be a good album…

DinIntunerec: What were the main obstacles that you had to overcome during more than three decades of activity?

Vorph: Well, there were many, like everybody in every life. You’ve got your personal problems, you got the band problems, management, label, every lineup change, it’s always difficult. You don’t like that. You don’t want it to change. But as I say, all the changes we had, have been for the best. So, even though I never wanted to have changes, it happened. I’m a bit like a cat, you know, I like to keep things the way they are. I don’t want change. I like the comfort of what I’m used to… However, when it happened, I wasn’t comfortable, but I had to deal with it. Then, I realized it wasn’t that bad.

DinIntunerec: What is the main driving force behind the band? What are the main principles that drive this project forward?

Vorph: Well, I guess we probably all have our own principles, within the band, but the one which is common to everyone is the love of music. I mean, heavy metal, but music in general, because we are pretty much openminded. Music is really like a passion for us. You know, I have a hobby. I like classical music. So, I go to classical concerts. Not so often lately, because of being focused on different things. But, when I have time and I see the connection with what we’re doing, though there is not a direct connection. It’s like a hobby.

DinIntunerec: Was your music perceived differently at the beginning? What do you think about this new generation? Do you think they still pay attention to the lyrics and understand the message?

Vorph: Well, I don’t really have a message. I mean, people see what whatever they want. So, if somebody connects or find their own interpretation, it doesn’t matter to me. It’s not important for me that what I thought is the same thing that the other people think. What is important is that there is a connection. What is more, once you decide this song means something for you, it becomes your song. I don’t really want to explain things too much because then I might kill some interpretations. And this is not fair.

To answer your question, is the new generation paying less attention? I think I have to be sincere with you. A lot of people don’t pay attention to lyrics, but that was happening even before. Some people are in only for the music. It’s not very much articulate because of the screaming. So, you know, you might not even hear the words. Some people don’t even care. But still, I express myself that way. So, if some people, are sensible to that, of course, this is more interesting. I accept everything the way it is.

DinIntunerec: What was the best or the worst or an unforgettable incident, a memory of something that happened while on tour or during a live show?

Vorph: Well, I’m sure there are thousands, but I don’t know… something that comes to mind when you think… I guess for everybody it is the same, when it is great, you tend to forget it because there was the happy moment and there is no wound. But if it’s bad, then you remember all your life because it hurts you and you’ve got the scar.

Something that came to my mind is a concert we played in Poland during the touring of Passage. It was a festival. We actually drove from Switzerland to Germany to catch the tour bus. Then we went together with The Gathering in Poland for the festival but we could only play two songs because we had a problem with the drum machine. Then I think there was something else, the keyboard was out of tune, but that we discover afterwards. So, we stopped the concert after two songs. We tried to fix the problem. But the promoter came and said: Well, there’s no more time. You got paid anyway and we need the last band to play.

The place was packed. They went crazy. We felt like we’ve got this immense rush of energy and we didn’t know what to do with it. I remember going backstage and we were breaking stuff and we were absolutely mad. Then, I went dead drunk. I don’t remember. But, because I was so over my head, that’s the one I remember. But, it was not a good one.

DinIntunerec: How do you see the underground metal scene nowadays, apart from quantity, as there seems to be a lot of new bands emerging everywhere, do you think that is quality too?

Vorph: Sure. Sure. It’s not even a competition, but if you want to do something now and stand out, there is a lot of work to be done. There is quality, with so much technology, very good sound engineering and production, how can it not be? If you refer to originality, well, it’s different. It takes more time and it is rare! There is band that I really love, The Dillinger Escape Plan. I’ve heard about them before, but it didn’t really impress me. I thought they just try to make things complicated and I didn’t get hooked. Then, I listened to Ire Works and I was like, wow. So, I came back to the previous albums and think, oh, yeah, it was there before, but I didn’t really pay attention too much.

It happened the same with Shining from Norway. I discovered black jazz and that was like a double slap in the face. And I was really excited to discover a band that gave me the kick, because it’s going rarer and rarer with the years… Not necessarily because the music is not good, but because you know so much about music and you always compare to what you know. And the more you know, the more the more you think it sounds like other bands you’ve already listened to. Therefore, there’s nothing new. So it takes a lot of time to find something.

DinIntunerec: What is the most important life lesson that you have learned so far, as a musician?

Vorph: I don’t even know, if I look back… I mean, as a musician, as you said, you never fully know how to play an instrument. Because you train yourself, and there is always a little thing, a little mistake that happens… and you discover this after years. The more you play, the more you learn. At least, that’s how it is for me. Sometimes I discover after many years that a little detail I should have done differently and it would have been easier if I had done it in a certain way.

Maybe you are a very knowledgeable person and it is different. But still, it is hard to come up with something original. It is the case of a lot of people who are very knowledgeable, know how to do stuff, but they rarely come up with something original. I am a huge fan of this piano player from Turkey, I do not know his name. But, I admire him and this is very interesting because it is very rare when I find someone who can come up with something original. I mean, it is a bit jazz, a bit folk, also experimental. It is rare.

DinIntunerec: Thank you for your time. Any final words for our readers?

Vorph: Thank you for your time, and for this interview, and for the support because we, the bands, depend on the audience’s desire and love for music. Also, on their finding ways of bounding. So thank you!

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